Looking at the Rangers roster with the signings of Michal Roszival and Wade Redden. If they went minimum wage for their fourth line and two press box forwards, their seventh defenceman and backup goalie, they’d have $8.6MM for Hossa. I can’t see how that gets it done unless he really wants to be there; the Rangers would end up being very shallow up front and I don’t really see who they can move to fix things. If TSN is to be believed, that leaves the Oilers, Canadiens and Penguins. Montreal would be risking the creation of a cap nightmare long-term or the loss of a bunch of guys already on their roster, given the presence of Carey Price, Tomas Plekanec and Mike Komisarek and the Penguins are already in a position where they can’t do it.
If TSN is right about who’s in it, I’d think that the Oilers are better positioned than anyone, provided that they can find somewhere to get rid of the excess salary. Maybe this was Kevin Lowe’s master plan - let Bob Gainey bog himself down with salaries for guys who earn their money and it would hurt the team to lose; the Oilers will go with a bunch of high priced guys who can be moved without a second thought.
Don’t the Oilers, at most, have about 3.5 million in room right now? Do you think that if they could land Hossa they would move Penner?
I have the Oilers at about $3.7MM. I think I’d be willing to move Penner and “downgrade” from Souray to make things work. Pittsburgh and Montreal don’t have as much fat on their roster. Will Lowe admit that he basically pissed away $10.5MM and three draft picks last year?
I think we’d all be willing to “downgrade” from Souray’s contract, I just don’t know what kind of market there would be for the guy. Penner on the other hand would definately have value. I don’t think Lowe would feel moving Penner would be an admission that the offer sheet was a mistake, but maybe he sees Penner as an untouchable part on this team.
I brought this up below, but Lowe appears to be upgrading single players with better versions of themselves - Torres becomes Cole, Pitkanen becomes Visnovsky. Scarily, Hossa is an upgrade over Hemsky. Just food for thought.
Souray and Roli are the obvious choices for us to want to move but….
If they sign Hossa, they have no choice. It’s Souray. Roloson probably doesn’t get you too much relief but Souray is $5.4M and the Oilers can send him away (if he agrees to wave NMC) and sign a useful D for 2M and save 3.4M.
Which gets us to $7.1M based on MC’s leftover number above and then it’s an easy Penner for something trade from there.
It can work. The question I’m asking is why didn’t Hossa agree to the deal tonight? What is holding it up?
My guess is it’s another team. Maybe Detroit.
Here’s a scary idea: What if the guy to go is Horcoff?
Until today i was a pretty big advocate of Lowe. If he signs Hossa we’re screwed.
MC - 3.7 with our without Pouliot and Stortini? They have $5,612,447 in space right now with 10F (no 78, 46, Brule in the minors) 7D and 2G. Lose Souray that becomes 11M in space. Sign 78, 46, and Hossa @9.5M to total 13F and you’ve got yourself the cap. Lose Roloson and you can afford a 3rd line C and a journeyman D and backup G. It’s not bloody likely, more like the “best case scenario”.
It can work. The question I’m asking is why didn’t Hossa agree to the deal tonight? What is holding it up?
He’s reconciling himself to the thought of living in Edmonton.
So, he’s sleeping in the freezer?
If his wife hears he’s thinking about Edmonton, probably.
I don’t really see how the Oilers are in any better position than Montreal (besides maybe a much more favorable tax regime). The Oilers would have to dump contracts just to make room (likely giving up picks and/or prospects to get another GM to bite on a Souray or a Roloson) The Oilers also have their own young players who will be commanding big raises in a couple of years.
The Oilers raises for young players are two years away: Tanguay, Koivu, Kovalev and Komisarek are unrestricted free agents next summer. Komisarek will be looking for a big raise. Plekanec is an RFA too. The Oilers have Horcoff, Cole, Garon and Grebeshkov next summer. My suspicion is that Edmonton will have an easier time of it than MTL, because their guys can command less money and there are fewer of them.
I think we’d all be willing to “downgrade” from Souray’s contract, I just don’t know what kind of market there would be for the guy.
Given the dollar figures that Redden and Streit just got handed (and yes, I would argue that Souray (at least when healthy) is superior to either of those players), I think there would be a market if Souray was willing to waive his NMC. San Jose, perhaps? Buffalo, if Regier is ready to forgive and forget?
Based on the dollars spent on D this and last summer, I think we as fans are having trouble keeping up with the optics of the new game. Without the ability to grab, hold and mug, many of these stud defenders are exposed and if they lose a step it shows up all over the scoreboard (kind of like when Jay Bell lost his feet at SS).
Is that why this money looks so ridiculous? I think it must be. Redden looked like saloon doors for most of the season.
I suppose the fact that MTL was initially targeting Sundin implies they were thinking a short term first and foremost. We’ll see what happens.
Crazy shit man. The world has been turned upside down.
Cats and dogs living together. The Oilers are going to be a cap team.
your right if the rangers did not go after every high priced player in the league,maybe hossa would be feasible. no hard feelings (chris drury). hossa would be great assest to any team, like buffalo. yeah right!!
If his wife hears he’s thinking about Edmonton, probably.
Seems like we gotta suck it up and invent central heating and enclosed automobile cabs for all these hockey-wife PUSSIES. Mark Messier’s 28 girlfriends never minded taking the good old dogsled express to the Coliseum but NOOOO. NOT FOR TODAY’S FEMINISTS.
In fairness though, a lot of the good facial surgery forms cracks at -20C.
ah the joy of hearing oil fans giddy with the thought that marian hossa isnt just using what is certainly a bloated and poorly-thought-out offer (”we gotta get nylander, no, it’s vanek, f-it, souray!”) only as a way to drive up the prices from the actually viable destinations. i love hearing how lubo compared edm’s love of hockey to slovakia’s. (of course he was chomping at the bit to go play for hc bratislava). as much as it would depress me to see marian in edmonton, it would almost be worth it once he realizes that the two best players on the team play the exact same position. and neither have shown any ability to play another position.
full faith and disclosure: edm did probably improve its team as much or more than any other in the past couple days. though if lombardi ends up acquiring khaby (cf la’s trading for jeremy roenick), it becomes clear that successfully completing a deal with the kings is the equivalent of winning powerball.
i will add that despite me being extremely suspicious of the finger signing (tor’s track record certainly won’t give them the benefit of the doubt), nothing that has happened today so obviously reeks of failure as the redden signing. it’s at least an even bet that wade is spending 2011-12 in hartford.
ah the joy of hearing oil fans giddy with the thought that marian hossa isnt just using what is certainly a bloated and poorly-thought-out offer (”we gotta get nylander, no, it’s vanek, f-it, souray!”) only as a way to drive up the prices from the actually viable destinations.
If they come up just short on Hossa, impress everyone with their tenacity and Katz’s willingness to get involved with the bargaining, that’s a totally fine outcome that leaves us with an improved roster, an improved profile in the marketplace, and a few mil left in cap space. If they land Hossa, we’re suddenly plunged into uncertainty over whether the cap will be met by getting rid of deadwood or quality. So it’s hardly as simple as you suggest.
Though I have to admit I would be pretty fucking amped about going to war against the Flames with Visnovsky, Cole, Hemsky and the kids, AND Hossa. Could be a recipe for some 7-1 victories.
Fuck, see, I’m talking myself into it already.
HORCOFF WAS NEVER A REAL #1 CENTRE (GAG)! SMALL PRICE TO PAY (CHOKE)!
Mark Messier’s 28 girlfriends never minded taking the good old dogsled express to the Coliseum but NOOOO. NOT FOR TODAY’S FEMINISTS.
Gold.
Until I see Hossa on the roster and Souray not, or Hossa signed somewhere else altogether, I’m going to start putting together a tombstone for Shawn Horcoff’s Oilers career. It would be such a coup from one perspective (PR/vaunt), and yet it would be an absolute nightmare from another (cap/future balance). And yes, I know, there are ways to make room for both, but things have been going a bit too well for something horrific not to happen at this point. These are the Oilers, here, and it isn’t 1987 anymore. I mean, I guess, the cap could go up to $65M next year. I don’t buy it, but I guess it could happen.
Oh, wait, I forgot. “Best of luck to the Calgary Flames this coming playoff.” Screwing around with the hockey gods is fun!
I’m completely on board with the push for Hossa, and even if it fails, there is positive fallout as Colby says above.
I think it’s easy to slip into looking at market value and lose sight of real value. When I look at the contracts that Redden, Ryder, Campbell, Rolston etc. signed … it’s literally not possible to sign Sundin or Hossa to too much money within the framework of the CBA.
I mean you can play Grebeshkov or Bergeron the quantity and type of icetime that those two D will need to be played, they’ll put up damn good numbers too, pretty close I’d think.
And no coach in their right mind is going to play Rolston or Ryder much against good players or when the puck is in the wrong end of the rink. And there are only so many soft minutes to go around, somebody else on the team, or more sensibly several players to different extents … they pay the price with their own stats.
Any coach can make Rolston or Ryder a player that makes a real difference to you winning your hockey pool, but none can make them players that make a real difference to their teams winning more games imo.
Sundin and Hossa are the opposite. They will change the way the opposing coach runs his bench. And they will make players better that they don’t even play with. They change the context of the ice time for the rest of the roster in a positive way. To a lesser extent you can say the same about Hemsky, Horcoff, Cole. Get enough players like this and you’re setting up the Gagner/Cogliano/Nilsson types to have a Vanek06/07 type of season methinks.
Having said that, who is this team going to be sending over the boards on defense when Iginla/Cammalleri/Langkow/Phaneuf skate out to take a faceoff in the Oiler end of the rink?
Best not to think about that right now.
Colby Cosh has come closest to the truth. The future financial success of Katz’s endeavour depends on the new arena. The Hossa campaign, regardless of the outcome, crystallizes the perceived need for the new building, reducing opposition to public financing.
We were Kings for a moment there….
The Hossa campaign, regardless of the outcome, crystallizes the perceived need for the new building
Of course, it doesn’t actually accomplish this unless you buy the nonsensical idea that the players give a crap about what year the arena was built and despise playing hockey in the sport’s most storied heritage building. But a lot of people do buy it.
Does anybody really believe the $450M estimate is anywhere near as solid as Katz’s $100M contribution? Which is more likely to increase?
Best not to think about that right now.
Too late.
From my vantage point we have 3 second pairing RDs, and 3 second or third pairing LDs.
Staios will probably get the RD duties. If we had a true #1 he could handle playing support, I think. But, as it stands now, he’d not only have to take on the toughs, he’d have to haul someone around while doing so.
We need a D.
far.txt;3;3